Mobile Affiliate Marketing Q&A Session with Charles Ngo and Benjamin Yong

Mobile Affiliate Marketing Q&A Session with Charles Ngo and Benjamin Yong

(light instrumental music) – Hello everyone, it’s time for another question and answer session, and today I thought I’d switch it up by doing a video
recording, so normally I do an audio recording but
I’ve had a lot of requests for me to shoot a video, so here we are. And today I’m actually
in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia, so I thought while I’m
in the city, I would bring a special guest
into this Q & A session. So my guest is my friend. He is also known as The
Malaysian Sensation, Benjamin Yong. Yo what’s up Ben? (cheering) – Thank you, thank you. Hey guys. So to the readers of you guys are in luck, because why? This is the first ever
video recording Q & A session done by Charles Ngo. So let’s see what other
questions we have there. – Yeah so, you know today I asked my Facebook page the other day some questions that a lot
of questions were very mobile centric, and you’re in luck, because Ben is amazing
at mobile marketing. So before we get started, this is my new YouTube channel, so subscribe to it. Like, and if you enjoy the video, just comment let me know. – The more like then the more frequent we do this video. Of course I’m not the only guest here. Charles is going to have a lot more– – Yeah. – All the friends right. – Let me know if you
guys want more videos. So first question, okay I’m
going to read the questions exactly as they were asked. How do you make the decision on picking the right country to
keep continue optimising. Let’s say for the first
testing, app instals for 20 geos and 20K
impressions for each geo. How do you decide whether
or not to continue optimising the base on
the ROI for each geo? He’s trying to ask if
you’re about to launch a mobile campaign like app instals, how do you decide which country to run, because some of these,
it’s kind of like dating. Some of these campaigns have like 20, 30 different countries to run, so how do you pick which one to run? Ben, how do you do it? – Well I’m thinking that
actually what he’s trying to ask is that this is applicable for the international app instal offer. So in that case, I would
say normally how I do it is instead of picking 20 countries to run, I’m going to first pick
the three countries, and then I’m going to
come out with at least three angles, to test on these countries. So as soon as I have
enough data to prove that there’s a specific angle
is going to out-perform the rest, then I’m going
to scale this angle to other countries. So that’s how I normally run. – Okay. – So how about yourself? – My way of doing it,
is running 20 countries that’s a lot of countries
to run, especially if you have a small budget. So what I would do is ask
your affiliate manager at this network and other networks, get a list of the tope
revenue countries, okay. Now you’re going to pick maybe, it really depends on your budget you know, pick five to 10, and
what you’re going to do, you’re going to keep the same angle. You’re going to direct link. What you’re going to do is
you’re going to split test 10 different countries,
you’re just going to see which one makes the most revenue. You’re going to lose money. You’re going to lose money,
because you haven’t tested angles, you haven’t tested landing pages. What I’m trying to do is, there’s Mexico, there’s
Indonesia, there’s Turkey, there’s China. I just want to run money,
see which one makes the most. So if each country gets
a budget of say 50 bucks, and Mexico gets $40 revenue, I lost money, but like I said I
haven’t tested targeting, I haven’t tested ads. I haven’t tested anything. So that’s going to be
the one that makes money. So I’m going to focus on
that, and once we optimise Mexico, now we go towards Thailand, Singapore, all the other countries. Okay, question number two,
this is a long one, okay. I’m doing adult campaigns in
low volume tier two countries. So for those of you who don’t
know, tier two countries are kind of like France, and Germany. The countries outside of
the main ones, like US, UK. Is the data I gather on specific placement on a specific site good
for life, or does it change over time? Also once banners, offers and Lps die off is the time/week parting
data still a good foundation so I can rebuild a campaign
based on that data. And from the data I’m
collecting, I’m seeing that a lot of these tier two sites combos are only capable of
generating five to $20 a day. Is that correct? If so would you say the
end goal was to have a portfolio of say 100 of these campaigns? What do you think Ben? – Wow, I would say that
if you are starting out on this adult then
maybe I would advise you to go to maybe tier three countries first, instead of the tier two because you see– – What would be an example
of tier three countries? – Tier three country and
I’m talking about let’s say, about taking let’s say
Mexico, yeah could be one– – Italy. – Italy is it considered tier three? – I would think so. – Alright, okay, yeah,
so these are the places, but I would say the
bottom line is you’ve got to focus on the country with the volume. Because based on this
question you are actually asking that adult campaign in
low volume, tier two countries so and it’s I think only
making you five and $20 a day. So in that case how I would
rather focus on tier two countries with a bigger demographic, so that whatever that you, all the efforts that you spend on the
campaign is going to be (mumbles). Because you see, given that two campaigns, one it has the potential
to make 100 and 200 a day, as compared to one it’s going to make five to $20 a day. But you’ve got to put in the equal amount of time, so let
me ask you this question, which one do you want to choose? So, of course I’d rather to have this portfolio let’s say 20 of them instead of 100 of these small campaigns. You get what I mean, yeah? So that’s what I think. How about you Charles? – Okay, so for the beginning
does the data you gather is it good for life or
does it change over time? Of course it changes over
time because new porn, the data’s going to be
a little bit different, you’re running a year from
now, two years from now, it’s going to be completely different. So most of the data,
you know once you stop running the campaign it
depends on the timeframe. It’s like only a month
difference, then yeah, most of the data’s going to be the same, but if it was like six months or a year, you pretty much have to start over. And some data though, is good for life. And that would be, okay obviously on adult night time does better,
weekends does better. So that doesn’t change. – Nobody wants to check up adult sites during the working hours. – Yeah, yeah. – For the obvious reasons. – Or they can only check
it out in like the office bathroom or something. (laughs) – Do you do that all the time? – Maybe, my office is at home so okay last question is
he’s saying that these tier two countries are only capable of generating five to 20 bucks a day, you’re doing something wrong. You’re on a big traffic
source like exoclick, or Trafficforce, a lot of
these bigger adult countries, even if you’re doing
tier two countries like France or whatever like
Norway, Netherlands, they’re more than capable
of doing 20 bucks a day. – That’s right. – And the end goal’s to have a portfolio of say 100 of these
small campaigns, hell no. Because that’s a lot of time you waste managing these campaigns. Because Netherlands goes
down, bidder comes in for France. It’s like a lot to manage. – Yes. – But yeah, you definitely
want to do what Ben was trying to talk about the 80 20 role. You know you don’t want
to do 100 small cams, you want to do five
campaigns that are like much bigger because it’s all about, it’s not just about
money, it’s about time. Like I’m on vacation, if
I’m running 100 campaigns I can’t go on vacation. – Yeah and just imagine if you are working as a lone ranger, that means one man show, is that correct, one man show. – Yeah, one man show. – Yeah one man show then let me ask you, how are you going to manage
100 of these campaigns? Let’s say one campaign
is going to take you five minutes to manage. 100 is going to take up
500 minutes of your time. – It’s like no gym time man. No sleep time. – And no girlfriend. – I need my sleep time man. – I need girlfriend. (laughs) – Okay, number three. You talked a lot about your campaign optimization process. I would love to hear
something about the campaign creation process. How do you set up everything in the start? How many angles, haw many
banner templates per angle, how many landing page
templates per angle, ad copies. Is there any system you would
recommend newbies begin with? Because to optimise a
campaign I first have to create one the right way, so
since you started the last few I’ll start this one. – All right. – So first thing is, a
lot of these questions it depends, because
depending on the type of vertical type of campaign,
type of traffic source, everything’s going to
be completely different. There’s not a one size fit all solution. But, that’s not what you’re asking for. You’re asking this for
a non-answer answer. You actually want a legit answer, so if you want a really
rough guide, keep in mind this is really rough, because
there’s like a million traffic sources out there. I would try maybe try
three different angles, and each of these angles
have about five ads each. And then usually you
would test landing page versus direct, but if you
know a landing page works by looking at your competitors like everyone uses a
landing page, then I would test out three different landing pages, and then last option
is you have to consider the specific targeting
in this traffic source. Because if you’re doing
POF, you’re doing mobile, so you’re doing mobile
then maybe you would separate the wifi traffic
versus the carrier traffic. So like I said, the more budget you have, the more variables you can test. If you have a small budget,
like only 20 bucks a day, then maybe I would only do
one angle with five ads. You’re not testing much,
you’re just testing one thing at a time, but for me I
have a pretty large budget, I launch at like 500 or 1000 bucks a day. If that’s the case then I’m
testing like offers, angles, landing page, I’m testing
a lot of the stuff, because I want data as fast as possible, and I have the money to buy that data. So what’s your campaign starting process? – Okay, so what Charles was saying is that by the way, I
want to clarify something, because you see each and every one, there isn’t a perfect
way to launch a campaign. All the time it’s just a rough guide, and I mean Charles might
have his own method, whereas for myself I have my own method. But for the record myself
most of the time before I launch a campaign, I
would always always ask your affiliate manager for a top offer list. So once you’ve got that top offer list you’re going to pick only one offer. So let’s say if you’re
talking about more val you’ve got to choose
between (mumbles) offer, lead gen offer, or
either app instal offer. Once you pick the offer,
you’ve got to focus on only one offer. And you have to make sure
that you pick the right offer, because why? Once you pick the wrong
offer, no matter how good is your optimization scheme or how good is your angle, or marketing
strategy and stuff. It’s not just the offer, it doesn’t work. – So how do you, if you’re
like a peasant newbie, and you see like an excel sheet of like 20 good offers, how do you pick which one? Do you pick the most
revenue or the highest VPC, or do you just like flip a coin and just pick one? – Yes, good question. Yeah good questions there Charles. So, most of the time the top offer list is provided by your AN is going
to be recording the revenue. So if you’re talking
about revenue and it gets sorted from one to 10, one to 20, most of the time we can
assume that the top offer list these are the offers
that are converting. Don’t you think so? – My firstly was if
others were making money from it, I can make money from it. Because you want to just go in there and oh this looks good. You don’t know if it’s
going to make money or not. If others are making
money, at least you know it converts, and at least you know the advertisement pays. – That’s right. And so I would say that
just pick one offer of this, and if you’re not sure, maybe you can look at the
pay-out as well as the EPC, and also the conversion rate. These three variables are very important when you’re picking an offer. – Also, one more thing for picking an offer is, look at what you are doing. Kind of spy. So if we’re running like
French dating and everyone was running be naughty France from cupid, then that’s what you should
start testing immediately. – And I believe that
another concern affiliate normally they have is that they are afraid that an offer is too competitive
and it even the draw, so what do you think about this? – Well, I think about
the iPhone when Apple came with the iPhone seven
years ago, there were many, many cell phones out. They came in when there
was so much competition, but they ended up being number one. Don’t be worried about being, don’t worry about competition. Worry about improving. Be better than everyone else. – Like Charles says. And even less come into the question, so after we have picked the
offer, so the next thing that I would do is I’m going to brainstorm at least three angles based on the offer. So what I do is,
immediately I’m going to go to the offer page, and
there I look at the offer description and what it
does and what the user can get. Always bear in mind, the user only care what they get. And this is the thing
that you have to trigger. You have to trigger– Emotions right? – Emotions, yeah, yes, yeah. So as long as your
angles is able to trigger the emotional and make them do the action, you make the money. So once you have the three
angle so Charles was saying that normally that
there’s higher test like five at each angle but if
you are on a low budget, then my recommendation is that just focus on the general banner design, and then just put your angle. In other words one banner, one angle, and then build a landing page and test it. So you put your angle and you, sorry you put your angle on the banner and also on the landing page. And you just test it. So after you run, let the
campaign run for some time, and once you gather enough data, then you pick the winning
angle, and you try to speed test other variables for supply. Like the different banner
design, and other things – All right, next question. So question number four, how do you manage 100+ campaigns? Do you use project
managers or another way? And how is it structured? Well first off, I don’t
have 100 campaigns. That’s like stupid. Guys, this is not the stock market okay? It’s not about having a big portfolio and diversifying. That’s not how this works. Don’t diversify, dominate. So instead, I probably
have, I guess it depends what qualifies as a campaign. But I probably have like, I’m probably in two big verticals right
now, in different countries. So I would probably say I
have less than 20 campaigns. And I really follow the 80 20 rule. Like I said I’m all about leverage. Not just about making the most money, but making the most money
while putting the least amount of work. So let’s say you did want
to do 100+ campaigns. Because there are affiliates,
super affiliates out there that do have 100+ campaigns. How do they do it? Well you need employees, and how’s it structured? Well let’s say you’re a
mobile super-affiliate and you have 100+ campaigns. So maybe you’re in five big verticals like battery, anti-virus, adult dating and some others, so you
could have one employee on each vertical. Another way you can
structure it is perhaps one employee on each traffic source, so you have one guy, it will be another guy on decisive, that’s another way. But I highly recommend you don’t scale that many campaigns,
what do you think? – Well as for myself, at one point I used to have more than 100+ campaigns, and then I realised that
I do not have the time to manage all these
campaigns, so eventually what I decided to do is that
I’m going to cut off those campaigns they are making me for example, like 20 to $50 profit a
day, and I only focused on those campaigns that could make me 200, 300, or even 100
profits per day campaign, and I’m going to just have
like maybe instead of 100+ I’m just going to have 20, 30 campaigns of this and eventually
once you add everything up, the number is still good. – That’s true, I think I
launch a lot of campaigns, sometimes I’ll have a campaign
that makes 100, 200, even 500 bucks a day. Profit. I end it. I just throw it away. So a lot of newbies will be like whoa that’s like free money, 500 bucks a day, you know that’s like 15,000 a month, but the fact is, that
campaign takes time and energy when I could use that time
energy on a bigger campaign that’s let’s say I have
a campaign that’s making 10,000 a day, I just need
to do a few split tests, and then that 10,000 turns
into 20,000 a day campaign. So remember, pareto principle, 80 20 rule. – Yes, that’s true. – Next question, okay you
answer this one first. So what do you do if a
profitable mobile campaign stops converting all of a sudden? For example, if it was
converting for the last seven days but all of a
sudden it stops, even if you tried testing new landing
pages, or cutting out non-performing traffic
sources, non-performing traffic targets and Lps. So what do you think? – Okay. So apparently the campaign
has been converting the past seven days, and all of a sudden, it’s stopped converting. What do you do? Immediately, (mumbles) first ask your AN You have to ask them
hey, is there anything wrong with the offer? And then of course on your
side you have to double check whether your landing page,
your server everything is back up and running. – Gotta be like yo what the
fuck are you scrubbing me? You’re scrubbing me now? (laughs) – Chill bro. – Don’t fuck with my money, don’t fuck with my money man. – Yeah because it happened
to me a lot of times in the past and most
of the time if I notice something is wrong, the
first person that I ask is my AN, and I’m going to ask hey, is there anything wrong with
the offer, and most of the time they come back to me oh
yeah man, yes the offers there’s some technical
issue on the site or what. So, you see we as an
affiliate marketer we actually our job is always to diagnose, like where the heck the problem is. We need to find out why
are we not making money, then we try to find out the problems, solve it, then you’re going to make money. So of course back to your questions, if it is not making money, all of a sudden check with your AN and if the offer has no issue, et cetera, then I think it might be the scrubbing by advertiser, what do you think? – So I think he’s correct. Something messes up, ask the advertiser. Make sure everything’s okay on your end. Make sure landing pages
and servers are up. Make sure that’s up. But what I would do is start split testing other offers, split test the same offer on different affiliate
network, because then if someone’s scrubbing
you, you’ll see what’s up. And the last one is I don’t know how much volume this guy’s doing,
but let’s say he’s only running like 10, 20
bucks a day, and you know he’s doing ten bucks a
day, 20 bucks a day revenue all of a sudden it’s no revenue,
well you’re not spending enough money. That’s not enough data. So it could be that. Okay next question, hi Charles, hello. On average how much money
do I need to get started in mobile? I will answer this first. So you can get started with any amount, but I guess you guys want
a set amount of money. I recommend about 2000
to about 4000 bucks. Because what you’ll find– – That’s including the server set-up costs or is this purely the campaign funds? – Just the campaign funds. The actual money. So, here’s the problem. When you launch a mobile,
you’re going to have a lot of campaigns where
you spend like 100 bucks, everything looks perfect,
zero conversions. So what happens is you’ve got to launch, launch, launch to get rid of all the
shit until you actually find something that gets
conversions and you can actually learn from. So you can, if you don’t have $2000 it doesn’t mean you can’t get started. You can get started with 100, or 200, or even 500 bucks. I’m just recommending
2000, 4000 because then you can launch a decent
amount of campaigns and that’s enough money to actually learn. Remember, these campaigns
I know the end goal is to make money, but
always each campaign, what do I learn, what do you learn. Because you learn something
from this campaign, even though it didn’t make money, you can learn something
that the next five campaigns it makes money from. So how much do you think you need? – Well, so exactly what Charles says, but there’s one point I want to add in. Before you pick the
offer, pick the campaign, you’ve got to make sure. Because you see,
different, what you call it the mobile offers it requires
your different budget. Let’s talk about admin stock. Only the pair is between
20 cent to one dollar, so for this kind of
campaign, maybe you need the minimum that you
need maybe is about 1000 instead of another offer
that pays like $20 (mumbles). So for that one maybe you need to fork out at least four to 5000 in order to test it. And that is only your
campaign fund, it doesn’t include your server costs, your hosting, and stuff like that. – But that doesn’t really
cost too much money. Okay so next question. When it comes to promoting
any product on mobile or computer, or I guess
desktop, do you conclude from your data that
the less steps it takes for the consumer/user to
get that product or service, the better it performs
or would you say that comes down to what the product is? As in people would jump
through hoola hoops to get something they really wanted? I ask from the perspective of someone who is getting ready to
promote a game that is going to be developed by my company. We are still deciding if
it should be a browser or one you instal. So my answer is the first part
I guess he’s talking about friction versus conversions, so I think you just have to test it
and see what makes money, what actually works,
because you should always lower the resistance
for someone to convert. At the end of the day, your question is should the game you’re
developing, should it be a browser game or one you instal? Here’s my suggestion. You know fuck theory. Take action. Read the lean startup. Read a lot of these like
lean start up books, and what you need to
do is create a minimum viable product. You know you need to create
a basic browser game, and embrace a basic app instal. And you need to make it
as basic as possible, split test them. See what people actually like. Put it in the hands of the user. See what they actually pay for it. And that’s the one you actually launch, because right now you’re just trying to make assumptions, you’re just theory. You’re thinking we should
do that, we should do that. Take action, and see
what people actually do Because you don’t want
to talk to 100 people and everyone’s like oh
yeah, I like a browser game I like a browser game. You launch, no-one actually buys it. You know people say one thing, but you want to judge by actions. Do they actually open up their wallet. Are they actually
playing with these games. What do you think? – Well, so to answer the
first part of your question I would say yes, because
you see like it makes sense. The less steps the consumer
needs to take to get the product or some business the
higher the conversion rate. So let’s just talk about
the mobile pin submit okay. We all know that they have
that they have the MO flow and T flow, versus the one click flow. So of course, when the user
comes to the landing page and just click one button, you make money. Of course it’s going
to make you more money compared to MONT flow where the user going to first receive the
SMS and then copy the code and go back to the offer page, insert it. Press a button, and boom, get the. Yeah so and back to the second part of your question, so promoting a game. Well I would say that it
largely depends on how in demand your game is. Or the nature of the product. Because you see like if you’re talking about iPhone, okay. Do you know that people
actually queue for a day, or even I think a week,
just to get an iPhone? So do you think that– – What do you mean they kill? – No, like they set up the tent, they queue in front of the– – Oh, queuing, okay. Like they’ll actually wait in line– – Yeah wait in the line for the– – I thought you said kill like– – No, no, no, not kill yet. So you see so in that
case so would you say that it actually doesn’t apply in this context because why, iPhone is actually something that can get people to buy no matter how many hardship they’re
going to go through, and I think there are people even fight, because of the queue, just for an iPhone. So, I will say that it
depend on what kind of game you’re running, and what
you want to promote. But of course in general
the lesser steps it’s going to take, the
higher the conversion is. – Next, how should you
deal with a massive, and massive was in capital
letters, so this guy means business okay,
so how should you deal with a massive number of
placements when doing mobile? From what I understand when
placements are just huge it can explode your testing budget without you getting a conclusion,
and I’m pretty sure this is pop vendor traffic. Or mobile, because I’m
assuming because he said a huge number of placements. – I think it also applies
to a let’s say if you set up campaign on the
site see their (mumbles) placement as well. – That’s true. So how would you deal with that? I think– – And I think this comment,
maybe is coming from someone who doesn’t have a lot of budget. – A lot of budget, yeah. I think my suggestion,
I mean there’s a few suggestions I have but
the first one is maybe you need to pick a
traffic source that’s more appropriate for your budget. Because it’s kind of like PPV. A lot of this mobile is like PPV in a way where you have a massive
amount of targets, and there’s a few things we can do. One is you could try
maybe a smaller country. Smaller country, and by
nature there’s less traffic, so you can at least get
your offer, your angle, your ads and your landing page just right, before you go to the bigger country. Another suggestion is
maybe just doing like an 80 20 role. Just focusing on just like
the top ten placements or something. Like the ones that get the most traffic. Really focusing your
optimization on those. But you know, the fact is a Ferrari costs like 200, 300K. Like some mobile traffic
sources you just need money to be able to get the data. – Yeah, so yeah so what Charles said. Focus on those placements
or maybe you could just focus on the proven placement. So what do I mean by that is that instead of launching
campaign on our end basic, run on network basis, you
just focus on the field placement so you’re going
to first ask yourself what are you promoting. Because you have to bear in
mind at the end of the day we are doing marketing. And affiliate marketing we are a marketer. And we are here to market
a product or service to the end user, so
you’re going to make sure that whatever you market, that whatever that you are marketing you are promoting has to
match the demographic. Yeah so you just got to go to the site and do some research. Maybe on, or maybe you an also just use to do some spying and do some research on the demographic. – Sounds good, okay. So when splitesting a
campaign what do you think are the three most important
items to splittest? For example he says
offers, images headlines or anything else. So this is– – So he thinks that he may just hit like and anything else. – Well that’s just an example for him, so I think this is the
million dollar question, that people want to pay me money to learn. So I’ll help you guys out. So first off, once again it depends. It depends on your budget,
your traffic source, your vertical. But, you know I’m not
going to give you guys a non-answer answer. I’ll give you guys what you want. If you want the most bang for the buck for everything, then first I will test out the offer because
look, I’ve had very good campaigns before. You know landing pages
balling, angles are balling, ads balling, traffic source balling, but the offer goes down. And you know, shit dead. So number one is offer. You want a splittest offer. So if you’re running a
mobile adult dating in USA, then you want to focus
on all the different types of offers and
really splittest those. Next is going to be the angles. So if you don’t know what angles are Google Charles Ngo angles
and have the article explain what angles are. And the last one is, it’s debatable. My answer is going to be the
traffic source targeting. So what I mean by that in
PPV it will be the website as the target. In mobile, I’m a big fan
of the carrier targeting. You know if it’s USA it’s
going to be Cricket versus Verizon versus T-Mobile. And POF now we’re going
to get to the male versus the female, the age demographics, so. Those are my things. – So how about let’s say in mobile, because we also know
that like when you talk about targeting, they
are like OS targeting. Carrot, the connection targeting, and stuff like that. So you were saying that offer
is the most important one, that angle is the next, and
what would be the third one. – Ah it really like I
say, it really depends. – It depends right, yeah. – Like for, I mean for mobile
it could be different things. You could either do the carrier first, by which carrier, or
you could do like wifi versus carrier, or you could
do the operating system like the iOS, versus
Android versus features. Like I said, it depends
on the traffic source, you’ve just got to test
it out, and figure out your own method. Like for me, each traffic source, I have my base optimization pyramid I use, but with each traffic source, I adjust it by like 25%,
10%, I adjust a few things for that traffic source. – Well I was thinking
it also actually depends on the offer because let’s say
you’ve got the promoting app instal offer, but what if
Charles so called optimization pyramid says that you
need to focus on the OS. The next thing that you need to do is focus on the OS, but
hey common sense right. If the offer accepts only Android traffic then you don’t have to
target iOS, that’s it. And other– – Yeah that’s pretty retarded. – Yeah, so to add in I will say that you have to know, get
your priorities right. Yeah always focus on those variables that have the most
impact on your campaign. – Yes, so when you know I
mentioned the optimization pyramid, so I haven’t really
shared this with anyone yet, but it’s kind of like the food
pyramid where at the bottom, you know the shit at the
bottom, that’s the most important things that you
have to eat like the grains, and then you go up, that’s
the meat and stuff, so. I kind of have my system
where at the bottom is the most important stuff. The offer, the angles, the targeting. Next is where I get more specific. That’s not as important,
that would be a landing page, or the actual ad copy I use. So you want to focus on
the most important aspects first and work your way up. So you know day one, we
focus on the most important. Day seven, now we’re focused on like what the landing page colour and button. You wouldn’t test that the first day. You would test that day seven. – That’s right. Now that Charles will
release the optimization pyramid during this workshop. – That’s right, only for $9.99. (laughs) – Are you serious? I would be the first to sign up. – Okay okay. I don’t take Malaysian money. You’ve got to PayPal me. Okay, next question, what is your favourite copywriting book? I’ll list a few off the top of my head. Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Swartz, Cashvertising and Tested
Advertising Methods. Do you read a lot of copywriting books? – I would say the best
one, my all time favourite Cashvertising. – Okay, I mean that’s pretty much everyone’s favourite, plus
that’s because you know a lot of these copywriting
books are from like the 1900s or the 1800s man. It’s like dude I don’t understand half the shit they’re saying. That’s why Cashvertising
was recently written and it’s a lot more modern. – Yeah and it teaches
you like how to write headlines or ad copy
that can make you money and that’s what we want to do. – Make you some fire. – Yeah. – Okay next one. For global mobile app
instals, if you’re not running on huge traffic sources
like Facebook or Google, do you suggest scaling to
more countries within a source before tackling more
sources, or do you suggest scaling one country to as many
traffic sources as possible before you optimise another country? So, you go first. – Well, so for this question,
I would say it really depends on what you want. So if you are talking about
focusing on one traffic source you’ve got to make sure
that the traffic source has a huge volume. For example I’m not
going to say that, okay. So if that particular
traffic source doesn’t have a lot of traffic– – What are you not going to say? – I was going to say
mention the traffic source, the name of the traffic source. – Why not, why not? There’s like a fucking hundred
traffic sources you can get– – No, no. – Just give them one. – No, no. – Hook my homies up with
just one traffic source, what do you think. – Okay, one. – Don’t say Decisive. Everyone says Decisive. – All right, okay. So if it’s banner I would say
eMobi but the cost is going to get a really tough time on approval. So if it’s more pop under and re-direct, I would say Adcash, yeah. Right, so it really depends. So you’ve got to make sure
that the traffic source that you’re running has a huge volume. In that case that makes
more sense for you to scale to other jobs. And if you are talking about
one geo and one traffic source you can also do that provided
you are able to optimise the campaign and make
it profitable, and then you can start scaling
whatever that you have. Because you see you don’t
have to re-invent the wheel. You can actually scale this
at the same campaign to other traffic sources that are similar. Crossover banner, then you
can scale to banner traffic source like eMobi, Decisive,
(mumbles) et cetera. – Yeah, so okay. – So there’s no right or wrong, it depends on what you want. – So for my idea, there’s no wrong answer. Either one is good. Me personally, I’ve always
been a traffic source guy. So I always focus on
mastering traffic source and that’s because when
you master traffic source, the more you do the traffic
source, you start picking up on the little things. And the little things are
what adds up and makes a lot of money. They’re the most leverage. – So I think that it just
like when you’re going after a girl, make sure you focus on the girl, so that you know her habits,
what she love to eat, and what movies she loves to watch. So that you’re able to get her easier. – I wouldn’t know about that. I’m in a really committed relationship– (laughs) – Let’s keep it business. – Okay. – So, yeah master traffic source. Another reason why is
because it’s just easier. You know if you’re on like
10 different traffic source, then it’s a pain in the
ass, you’ve got 10 different affiliate managers, got to
fund 10 different campaigns. Each system’s different. So I just like keeping it simple. Next, what do super
affiliates do differently compared to normal affiliates
when it comes to mobile? Man, every single question’s mobile. All right, so yeah, what do you think? – So what do super
affiliates do differently compared to normal affiliates
when it comes to mobile? Well, it’s a tough question. – Okay, so I’ll answer
it, you can think of a– – Yeah, yeah you answer it. – Okay so, in my opinion,
from what I’ve seen with mobile super affiliates, there is, they find a particular specialty, and they abuse the hell out of it with employees. So what that means is, they either like, no I’m not going to say that– (laughs) What they do is they
find like a specialty, let’s say they do browsers. Like they do app instal
browsers, that’s their specialty. And what they do is they focus on that, and they really abuse it. And they really scale it with employees, because in mobile, okay mobile’s different from a lot of traffic sources
because you’re not going to do like 10,000 profit a
day off like a single vertical on a single campaign in a single country. Instead what’s more likely to happen is you’re making 1,000 here, 1,000 there, 1,000 there, 500 there, 1000 there. So it’s kind of hard to
manage just you by yourself. So what happens is all
the big, big mobile guys all have employees, and these
employees they specialise in a different country or
a different vertical or something. So I guess that’s the
main thing I’ve seen. They focus and they exploit it. They scale the shit out
of it with employees. – Okay. So in this case I would actually want to re-phrase the question. Because you see if we are
talking about super affiliates it doesn’t mean that
when it comes to mobile they’re going to do things differently. And it’s actually going
back to the definition of super-affiliate so
what is your definition? – Can I just, there is
an article about this. I read an article about this. My definition of super-affiliate, okay. So it’s not just about, for me personally, it’s not just about how
much money you make. It’s about how much skill you have. So just because a guy makes $10,000 a day, doesn’t mean he’s a super-affiliate. Can he repeat this process? Can he do other traffic sources? Can he do other verticals? Because a super-affiliate is not a guy that makes $1 million in
one year, it’s the guy that’s there and can do it year after year after year after year. – Consistently. – That’s a super-affiliate. – Yeah, that’s right. So it’s not only mobile, it
may be if you’re talking about if mobile started to die,
then the super-affiliate is still able to jump
to a new traffic source, or maybe a new trend and
still making the same amount of money, or maybe even more. – So what do super-affiliates do different than normal affiliates? – Well, again like I said
actually back to the questions like how do you define super-affiliates. So to me, I actually believe
that super-affiliates they have stronger
mind-set, and they are not afraid of losing money. They treat this as a
business, and they are able to focus on the things
like outrialing the focus, to make it work. Because here’s one thing
that I see that are between people who are not
really successful affiliates like between AN (mumbles)
people, is that they are able to focus on one
thing and make it work before they jump to another thing. So here’s one issue that
I see on a lot of newbies, they always have this what you call it, a shiny object syndrome, so always– – Bright shiny object syndrome. – Bright shiny object
syndrome so they always jump from offer to offers, traffic sources to traffic sources. The rest of the affiliate
they’re going to focus on, one thing, one offer, one traffic source, make it work and scale it. – Next question, so this
is a question that we’re pretty familiar with. What would you recommend
to someone who has crushed Facebook traffic, (10,000
day profit) but now he can’t keep accounts up. So should he try to adapt,
or should he try another traffic sources? So, this is an interesting
question for Ben, because he used to be a big Facebook guy. Used to. – Used to. – Used to, but then
earlier this year, you know Facebook made some changes
and I guess he could have adapted if he’d wanted to, but he had to make a decision. Should he stay with Facebook
traffic, or should he pivot to something else? So he pivoted, into
promoting mobile, and that’s worked out very well for him. And you know for me, I’ve
been on and off Facebook for the past few years, and I know plenty of guys that are Facebook
only, so he wants to know, should he stick with Facebook, and try to make it work, or should he switch to something else? My opinion is, look, it’s almost 2015, and Facebook is only going to get harder. It’s not going to get easier next month. It’s only going to get harder. If you can’t adapt now, it’s
just going to get tougher. So, my opinion, my
opinion is, what’s going to make you more money in the long run? And I think you just
have to like suck it up and adapt and change with the times. Like a lot of maybe nine months ago, Facebook banned dating. Facebook banned dating and a lot of guys tried sneaking ways for it to work, but at the end of the
day they couldn’t adapt because their systems just got too strong. So the guys that adapted into
some other traffic source, so some went to adult,
some went to mobile. They became successful
while some other guys, it’s like you know,
certain traffic sources, certain verticals just have
different peaks and lows and some traffic sources
just, you know the past is the past. You’ve just got to move on. – You’ve got to move on yeah. And also for me I actually
believe that it depend on what you want. Do you prefer your
business to be like this, maybe you can make 800K in a month, and the next month (boom)
drops down to zero, because why? You have no more accounts,
and maybe it’s going to last you one month, and
then maybe your business is going to go back up
again, 200K and then (boom) the next three days goes down again. Or if you prefer to be
someone like me who prefer to have your campaign steady running, and yeah so, it really
depends on what you want. – I think what matters at the end, is how much money you make
at the end of the year. So you know 800K, 300K,
that’s a 1.1 million profit, that’s a lot of money. Versus like someone that
switched over and only made like $300 a day the whole year, and that’s not as much money. So you have to do some kind
of expected value equation. But the benefit of at least
going mobile, or going to a traffic source that’s going up is you’re positioning yourself for the future. You know instead of focusing on something that you’re not really doing anything, at least with the mobile
you can, you’re only going to get as mobile
gets better, you’re only going to make more money. So that’s another consideration. 13, so three more questions guys. Okay, so how do you maintain your systems? Especially in house employees. From training them up, growing themselves, the company and
incentivizing them to stay. So I’ll go first. You know I don’t want
to give away everything, because this for me, I give away so much. This is one of my competitive
advantages in this space. Well, I establish systems,
processes and checklists. So anything we do, let’s say
we come up with new images, okay, so every few days we have to upload new images because of antivirus,
so what I’ll actually do, I’ll train them, we’ll record the video, we’ll establish the
checklist, we’ll establish, I’ll write out the instructions,
because once again, future employees, they
can refer to that database to learn so I don’t have
to train them every single second. Another idea, I like to
keep everything simple. So in Dilbert’s book,
there’s a passage called Being a Simplifier or Being an Optimizer. When you’re training other
people, you want to keep things as simple as possible. The third is I provide daily
training to my employees so I’ll have 30 minutes a day, where they can ask me anything. So Charles, how do I (mumbles) angles. Charles like this landing page sucks, how do I make it better? So I train them, and my ultimate
goal for an employee system is for my employees to be
able to train other employees. Because me essentially training employees over and over, takes me away
from more important stuff like strategy. And another interesting
question is incentivize them to stay. So you know that’s what,
every affiliate has to go through, you train someone– – And you’re afraid that they’re going to leave you one day– – Yeah, you know. Take everything you
know and leave you with your dick in your hand. So there’s a few ways to
incentivize them to stay. The first one is you have
to compensate them fairly. Look, Ben’s my employee
and he knows how to make, let’s say we have a campaign,
making 15,000 a day profit. He knows everything, and I’m
only paying him like 10%, so I’m only paying him 1,500, he’s not going to stay. I mean use some common sense. Treat others like how
you want to be treated. So, pay them more fairly. Second thing is where your leverage is, and competitive modes. So for me, a lot of my campaigns I have are exclusive to me. Like I actually worked with advertisers, we built the stuff, it’s
only for Charles Ngo. And I have really good relationships with my advertisers. Like you know I’ve been to their houses, I travel, I’ve known them for years. So if one employee
decides to screw me over and tries to run the
same campaign, he can’t, because I know this guy. We’re homies. And then third, treat them well. A lot of my employees, yeah
sometimes I’m hard on them. Sometimes they make a mistake, I’ve got to smack around shit, but
deep down, they know like it’s tough love. So I treat them well. We go on vacations a lot. I hook them up with new
MacBooks, new monitors, (mumbles) chairs, so it’s
all about treating them human, and taking care of them, and watching them grow. For me I have rules. If you work for me, you have to work out three
or four times a week. You have to stay physically fit. I make them read. You have to read. You also, I’m not just, I
don’t look at these guys like they’re just here to make me money. I’m actually interested in their growth, and becoming better. Not just better business
men, or better affiliates, but a better human being. What do you think? – Well, as of this point
I still do not have growth employee, so I
think Charles is really (mumbles) with that. And I think after this video, a lot of, you’re going to receive a lot
of resume, don’t you think so? – A lot of resumes. I hope not. (laughs) Because I’m on vacation right now guys. I don’t want to deal with emails. Okay, so this is a fun question because I mean dude we’ve
been getting so many mobile questions man, my head hurts. Okay next question is, how
do you handle not getting a big head and how to
stay humble when you carry so much cash flow that most
people can’t comprehend? So he’s asking when you
make a fuck load of money, how do you stay humble. How do you not be cocky. What do you think? Because you’re, I’ve
been doing this for like six, seven years. He’s relatively new money
compared to me, so he’s more like it just has happened to him, so how do you deal with it? – I would say it depends
on your personality. I mean the choice is always by yourself. Whether you choose to
pop a lot of champagne in a club, or do you want to– – I like to do that. – Oh you like to do that? – Yeah I like champagne. – Well, personally I
don’t do that, you know. Yeah, so I would say
it depend on yourself. I mean you don’t have
to be cocky and just go and let everybody know
how much money you made. Because you have to know
that there are a lot more people who make shit
lot more money than you, but they are keeping it silent. Yeah so who you are to them, and why should you be cocky? – Okay, so I have a few ideas about this. So one thing I’ve noticed
is, I mean, I’m not going to name names, but
some of the cockiest people in the industry tend
to have some bad karma, so you know I’ve been in this industry like six, seven years. People know who I am, and I,
all the guys are extremely cocky, they’re not around any more. Because of karma. And fact is, if you brag
about how much money you have, you talk about
money all the time, well you’re going to have
all these people trying to borrow money from you,
people trying, gold diggers, people trying to fuck you over– – That’s right. – Bad business deal. So by staying more low keys and humble, you don’t attract the toxic people. Another idea is about being confident, and watch your identity. So for me, when I see
a guy that’s extremely cocky, always talk about money and stuff, you know I think they have a small dick. (laughs) It’s like if you’re a confident guy, you don’t have to, yo man, that’s gay as hell. Okay, if you’re a confident guy, you don’t have to brag. So for me, my identity, because I’m building a brand
right now, and you know, most people that build
a brand, you want to show off the car, show off everything, show off the screenshots. For me, it’s about helping people out. I want to help people out. I want to help you out. I want to demonstrate. I want to build my brand
through my knowledge. Because when it comes to money, dude there’s always richer people. Not just affiliate marketers, but you know there’s
like all these rich kids from mainland China and stuff, I can’t compete with that. – Look at Daniel (mumbles). – Yeah, (mumbles) I can’t compete with a lot of these guys, but when it comes to being more intelligent or helping you out, I can compete. You know it doesn’t cost me as much stuff. Because for me, instead of spending like 30,000 a launch,
I’d rather spend it on a property or a– – Investment. – Investment, assets, index funds. You know, that stuff. Okay,– – The last question. – There’s one more question
I forgot to put in here. Oh there’s a few more. One question was you know
Steve Bari from Offer Ball he asked me ideally in
like 10 years from now how many revenue streams
do you want to have? – Revenue streams– – That’s everything, top to bottom. Not just affiliate, but five
years, 10 years from now, where do you want your money coming from? But I know you’re really
big into property now. – Yeah, so in fact I’ve
got a few properties, so because I believe a lot
of successful affiliates, they also treat the affiliate money as the drug money. Because we all know
that you can make money so fast and so quick. So I would say that eventually, you’ve still got to invest your money onto properties and also
other investment that could generate the revenue stream. So it really depends
on whether you want to invest your money on
properties that can give you income. It just sits there, you don’t have to do anything with it, or if
you want to invest into a business, of course business, it really depends on how brilliant
your start up idea is. It could make you 100 of millions in the next 10 years, we never know. But I would say that if when
it comes to income stream as for myself the next
10 years, I think I’m still going to keep affiliate
marketing as part of the income stream. So on top of that, I’m going to make sure I have income from property,
and also have income from other businesses
or maybe joint ventures with others. So for me, I mean I don’t even know if I’ll be alive in 10 years guys. So that’s why I’m not
going to waste my time thinking about 10 years from now. I think I’m going to be involved
in the affiliate marketing industry for at least
the next three years. So I still like running campaigns. I have my team ready. I’m starting accelerator
so there’s still a lot of opportunity for me to make
money in affiliate marketing. After three years though,
I’ll probably start venturing away and trying to utilise my skill sets in either building non-affiliate business or perhaps getting into the start-up world. Something I want to start
doing more for my income is investing in assets. Like I don’t have any property right now, because I don’t know much about property, but that’s something I want to get into. Right now I’m more of like investment, stock market kind of guy. So ideally I want to have money from literally everywhere, and
passive income you know. I want to have properties, I want to have like all the, a lot of
money in the stock market, and I also want to have
a lot of money coming in from my brand, I invest in this start up. I invest in that start up. So, ideally, in the
beginning you want to focus. That’s what I’ve been doing for five, six, you know seven years. Focus on affiliate marketing. After a while, now it’s time
to diversify a little bit. Next question, so we’re going to if you. So okay, nice to have you here. How do you pick and
angle for your campaign. Will you split test the angle first, or do you pick one angle and run with it after you’ve done some research? – Well– – So I’ll go ahead. You know do you split test
angle first or pick one angle after you’ve done the research? Well, you know I usually just sit down, no distractions, and just come up with like three to five angles. How do I come up with angles. For me honestly, it’s second nature now. How would you come up with an angle if you’re like brand new? I mean you could do competitive research, so if you’re trying to
like promote something to fat chicks, then just
Google, so you’ve got one angle it’s like, eat healthy salad. Another angle, you could have
like a before and after image. But it’s just one of those
things where you know it just takes practise. Next is, yeah, you know
there’s no such thing as being able to guess the perfect angle. You actually have to come up with a few, and you have to split test it. – Test it and see which one is going to give you more RI. Then there is no such thing as the best and grab all the profit and go. Please bear that in mind. Because you see, up to
this point, I have about 100 plus students, and a
lot of them actually ask me hey Ben, how do we know
which one is perfect angle or the best angle? And I get asked it a lot of
times on these questions. – Yeah. You just need practise guys. One last question, because we’ve got like. We’re supposed to be at the coffee shop for a mediation meeting right now. Yeah yeah, okay, so last question. If you can only give three
advice to your younger self, what would it be? So mine, number one, be more aggressive. It’s like you like something,
you want something, you go for it. Don’t be a pussy. Next, don’t care about what
others think about you. You know because sometimes we don’t do what we’re supposed to do
because we’re scared of haters, scared of what our parents think, we’re scared of what our parents think. You know fuck what everyone thinks. This is your life. And the last advice, is
realise that everything is a skill. So example in high school, I
was scared of public speaking. Now I’m a public speaker. And I was able to develop
that because I realised that’s a skill. It takes practise. So let’s say you’re a really shy guy, you’re a total introvert. Well I’m an introvert,
but I can still socialise with people. That’s a skill. Let’s say you’re not a funny guy. Well practise making jokes. That’s a skill too. (laughs) Everything in life is a skill. Affiliate marketing, you know, when I was born I didn’t know what affiliate marketing was. – Nobody does either. – Eight years ago, I didn’t know what affiliate marketing was. How did I become, how
did I become Doctor Ngo? Because I developed that skill by working every single day. So what three pieces of advice would you give yourself? – Well of course the first one is to be focused.
– Wear a condom. (laughs) – Also, we mean business Charles. – Yeah okay. – You can be more serious. (laughs) So pf course the first advice that I would give to my younger self
is to focus and focus. Because you know what I
was saying, always I have a bright shiny object
syndrome, like jump from traffic source to traffic
sources, offer to offer. So to be our trial focus mean something, work before you jump to other. This is the first one. And also the mistake
that I made in the past. The second one is you’ve
got to be aggressive. Milk the campaign, while it lasts. Because they are just, I just explain this too many times that while
the campaign’s converting the offer’s running so
well, I just leave it, and I didn’t spend more
effort on scaling them. And I left a lot of money on the table. Eventually when the offer dies down, I’m back to zero. Yeah so you’ve got to be aggressive. And lastly, the third
one, I would say that you really have to know how
to build a relationship with your AN. Because I mean along the way
I really, I have picked up so much, so much
experience, that you really have to know how to build relationship, not only with your AN, but also with your traffic sources rep. Because sometimes you never
know that you’re going to get some special
treatment, so I think Charles as a friend, so during the
traffic sales rep birthday– – Oh yeah, yeah. So I you know, a story. A story I like to tell
like during my workshops is I have a friend who you know it’s this traffic source rep’s
birthday, and pretty much everyone forgot his birthday
but he knew from Facebook, so he sent him like a bottle of champagne, and something. – He was a huge traffic source. – He was a huge traffic source
so this guy was so touched because everyone forgot
about his birthday, that he ended up giving
my friend like a 10,000 or a $15,000 discount
– Advertising credit. – On his invoice. So yeah, like focus on
building relationships and that’s like. You know people think about
affiliate marketing as like ads, landing page, being
creative, technical skills. But at the end of the day,
it’s also human skills, social skills. How to talk to people. Networking, match finding. So– – Oh don’t be like just sitting
in front of the computer, but we still have to focus
a lot on the relationship building, don’t you think so? – Yeah, yeah. And it’s tough for most
guys because you know, most guys are naturally introvert. Because this is a lonely game, you know. All day on the front of
the computer by myself. (laughs) So you kind of lose that human touch. So I think, well that’s 16 questions. I mean that was like almost an hour long. We got a lot covered. So I want to thank Mr
Benjamin (mumbles) Yong. – Yeah thanks. – So, you know if you guys liked this, check, you know subscribe to the channel. What’s your website again? – – Or you can go to – That’s right So like, comment, let
us know you want more. Alright, peace out. – Peace, bye. (light instrumental music)

Comments (38)

  1. Hey Charles & Ben .. This is C.T. from ATL.. Happy belated B-day Charles .. 
    Awesome Q & A session !!   You guys have a real cool flow.  

    Since I recently started running mobile campaigns, I found the questions and more importantly your responses extremely beneficial. I will be implementing immediately..  

    I just wanted you guys to know how much I appreciated the knowledge you dropped on us..   I hear so many great things about Asia, I can’t wait to visit. 

  2. Thanks for putting this up for us Charles and Ben! Very informative and a great refresher for those who get going on affiliate marketing and then all of sudden lose momentum because campaigns bottom out or traffic sources just don't work they way they use to. An eye opener for me, as I feel like I'm making campaigns work for a few week and then it just tanks. Anyways, I took a few notes on the pointers and going to implement them NOW. I know time is valuable for both you guys, but its greatly appreciated when you do these things for the online community! Priceless.  

  3. make videos about life advice 🙂

  4. welcome to YouTube brotha. Subscribed. You're gonna love it

  5. Awesome video Charles ! Tons of gold nuggets 🙂

  6. Great Video Dr Ngo.  Thanks Alot, and I def want more!! 

  7. Welcome to the video world man! Awesome choice, we are glad to have you here.

  8. Great advice Charles and Benjamin.  Question – do you all simply run international ads/LP's in English? Any issues with that you can speak to? 

  9. Enjoyed the video very much, many interesting pieces of advice. It helps a lot so I hope you'll keep this coming. Thanks guys 😉

  10. I'll have to go back and re-listen so I can take notes this time.


  11. Awesome Q&A, I had to rewind few times to take notes. It's great because you covered a lot of mobile which is exactly what I need. Thanks to both of you and of course we want more of this stuff 🙂

  12. Damn Charles got on da bulk – would bang

  13. Great Q&A session!

  14. great video got alot of value

  15. Great content Charles & Benjamin! Looking forward to Affcelerator in 2015, and new dates regarding that?

  16. Thanks so much, great info!

  17. Thanks so much for this, Charles. I'm 25, just quit my job in May to pursue my skills in graphic design and photography. Just last month I started researching AM and you were one of the firsts I came across, and for that I'm thankful. Even though this particular one was a bit over my head right now, I'm really looking forward to more videos. 

  18. Excellent Content! Subscribed!

  19. Awesome video guys 🙂

  20. The difficulty i have when doing affiliate marketing is knowing what exactly works and doesn't. I find it frustrating to locate the exact problem with out changing everything. Is there a sure method to use in affiliate marketing?

  21. Awesome man!!!!! Please, more videos!!!!!

  22. That was gold . Thx boys.

  23. At 16:00-ish Benjamin said something very important. The applied example of 80/20 rule mentioned by Tim Ferris. Working and proving that it works everywhere, in business, life, training and campaigns. Great video guys!

  24. 03:54 – ahhh dieww!! Class! lol

  25. Great video guys. Thanks

  26. Super interview…and then you had to rub it in with the sick high rise view. AWESOME!

  27. Good questions thanks

  28. Great video, thank you for making it and for sharing 🙂

  29. Not often I watch a highly informative interview about business which provokes consisten laughter! Great work!

  30. The starting budget fact is a bit discouraging but i believe we can start with low budget and might end up being " lucky" with those first dive campaigns

  31. i am a newbie i never launch a campaign because i do not know where to start from.
    But i came across you blog and i been reading and reading. All i need is just a step by step how to get started please.
    you said mobile marketing is better for newbie right?

  32. Thanks for the insight Mr Ngo


  34. Wow! This is simply awesome. I have a ton of questions but I'll probably first run through the comments to see whether any of them have been answered

  35. Charles NGO I really like your guide I read it I always wanted to be an affiliate marketer I'm a newbie just letting you know I shared it with people I think we'll use it thank you again

  36. charles ngo – affiliate marketing 2.0 Course free

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